Sand Bagging
Sandbagging- the art of playing in a division that is easy for you to dominate.
Why? Because these leagues have post seasons in cool places :)
I think it is most prevalent in the USTA leagues. When I moved to sac I could win every 5.0 tournament but couldn't make the 5.0 team I wanted to be on.
The best sandbag I ever played was connor olson in a 5.0 (#1 for sonoma state that year, and the next, and the previous) I was pissed at first, thinking he is not a 5.0! But the truth is you have to beat everyone sometime and when people lose to me that is the first thing they say.
The best sandbag I have ever seen was eric holmes (davis player) playing 4.5
Best expierence being a sandbagger- I was playing the #1 5.0 in norcal. On my way to beating him 6-0 6-0 we got in a screaming match. From baseline to baseline he yelled "you sand bagging POS you are not a 5.0!" (Saying I am too good) I told him, "no. Your not a 5.0! Your terrible" We have played against each other since then and he apologized. (I won that match too)
Has anyone ever lost to a sandbagger? Has anyone ever played the roll of sandbagger?
post your stories here!
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Tim Prapong on
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They got through, as a 3.5 team, were undefeated in their region, got past the Seal Beach thing, but lost two week later at the City of Industry district/regionals?. I get mixed up on that. I was training them for free and watched them.
So now, they got bumped up to 4.0. The two singles players, from time to time, will hit like a 4.5 in practice play. I don't think they will fare well, this time around. Two of their doubles units did not perform well.
It would be fun to play with my friends and take them somewhere, but I don't want to deal with the possibility of DQ'ing the team because I am there. I think I would be more interested in playing 5.0 tournaments and try an Open once I'm grooved.
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Permalink Reply by Mike Dong on
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Tim, if you're 5.5 you can't play 5.0 tournaments. Do you have any videos of you hitting? I'd love to see some! :)
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Permalink Reply by John Spoerl on
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Mike- I am only a 5.0 but did you see the video I posted of me in the Yuba open? We beat 3 top 10 open singles guys in that tournament. Gotta love doubles!
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Tim- where did you come up with your 5.5 rating? Are you a usta member? I was #1 in the 5.5s last yr and don't remember you. I am only rated 5.0 though so I am sure you can beat me ;)
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Or am I trying to sandbag?
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Ah, this is going to get into a debate. Well, I went to the Rose Bowl tournament in Pasadena and saw the 4.5 player against Bart Wallace, there was no 5.0 draw, and the Open player with Dr. Decker. I would say this confirms what I self rate I am. I am a step below Dr. Decker on serving. Dr. Decker is 6.0+ as he says. The Open player he played against had more endurance and was good technically in his own right.
I definitely do not want to play the 4.5 category after seeing Bart Wallace's opponent. The weirdest, non technical serve, almost borderline hard pats.
So I would like to play somewhere in between Open and not 4.5. Maybe 5.0 or 5.5 if they have it. And once in awhile, Open when I'm sharp. My serve is finally settled down back to high consistency since I have been searching ways to make it around 105-110 mph.
I'd love to play you, since you play fast and I hit on the rise chip and charge returns myself from time to time. Ask M.G. on this website. He saw me two days ago play a former Dutch junior. It was my best performance in singles in awhile.
You're sandbagging, though. You would be playing Open in the tournament I saw, and you would end up against these hard hitting Armenian kids. They were hitting exactly like Djokovic!
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I mean no disrespect to Dr. Decker, especially since he is not participating in this convo but... judging by his pic he is not a 6.0 bc 6.0 is a nationalyRANKED NCAA D1 player. And 6.0+? 6.5? Is he in the top 1000 with current atp points? There are only like 10 of those type of player in norcal. (He's a socal guy right? He may be)
Just because you saw one person who claims to be a 4.5 playing unorthodox doesn't mean the whole division is garbage. My buddy eric holmes played for davis all 4 yrs and then put in a season at 4.5. He can beat me for sure
You also seem to think open is better than 6.0. Open tournaments are won by 5.5's all the time. Ocasionally there will be a big one, like the stead ($25,000) and the 6.0+ group will come out. But that group is either currently playing D1 tennis or has a world ranking
Also remember you were at a tournament. Tournaments are a joke compared to the leagues around here -
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Permalink Reply by M.G. on
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I think Tim is 5.5 in my opinion.. The both of them were playing a great set. After playing our match, my friend and I were watching them in amazement.
just my 2cents
john.. I took a peak at your videos.. if you and tim were to play a match.. it predict every point would end with the both of you are the net! it would be great.
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Tim- we can hit any time. Let me know if you ever want to come to sac. We can play indoors, afterhours. I have a key. I will also give you a heads up next time I am coming to the bay =)
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Sounds fun
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I'd be sandbagging then, shoot me. I don't care at that point. lol
I had a friend who was a challenger pro in Florida, trained with Sampras, Agassi, Costa, Muster. He told me, "No one plays like you and do nothing with it." I was thinking on that one, because I was just going to not play tournaments.
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Hey John, that's super cool you would like to hit with me. I would enjoy it very much.
Dr. Decker played for USC, that's what he told me and my doubles partner. He is very fast, can serve very hard up the T, big twist serve, deceptive forehand roll passing shots, great slice backhand approach and rally stroke. Also crowds the net when he hits an approach. You can't judge by his picture, I can tell you that.
I cannot rate myself according to how league people sandbag and exist. If I were to rate myself 4.5 and walk around SoCal to get friendly matches, I would be hitting with people hitting around 45 mph rally speed. If I play a 4.5 tournament and run into a 5.0+ sandbagger, so be it. But I know what he really is and what I really am.
My racquetball forehand was clocked over 110 mphs, which I used for the rball serve. I have a very good forehand in tennis as well, which I can hit three or more different styles. My backhand also, I can hit in three or more different styles.
I fit either one of these descriptions:
5.0 This player has good shot anticipation; is able to overcome some stroke deficiencies with outstanding shots or exceptional consistency; will approach net at opportune times and is often able to force an error or make a winning placement; can execute lobs, drop shots, half-volleys, and overhead smashes with above average success; is able to vary the spin on the serve; plays well enough to reach the high school state tournament (beyond sectional tournaments) in singles or doubles; is skilled enough to compete on many Division III college teams 5.5
This player is able to execute all strokes offensively and defensively; can hit first serves for winners and second serves to set up an offensive situation; plays well enough to be a top performer at the state high school championship level; is skilled enough to play college tennis on top Division II & III teams.
I have played Division III players in the area. I've beaten them at doubles and I don't see any problem having competitive singles play against them. I also practice with a former Division II singles player. My groundstrokes, volley and serves are better than his.
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