Retaliation: What is your stance on getting hit by the ball?
This concept came up in my friendly match with some of my boys, but sometimes, it happens in tournaments. What do you think is ethical, sound, and PRAGMATIC? I'm speaking about reality.
I got three rules about being hit...
1. Was it malicious? You can tell when they are being malicious/evil/over the top. It's their reaction after the shot. Then, what?
2. Was it accidental? Once again, it's the reaction of the player plus was it a frame? a fluke?
3. Did you just get in the way? some players just play tennis. It's just tennis. Like it's just business, nothing personal. course, if we're playing mixed, and you drill an overhead through my women partner at point blank range--that's wrong.
I got three rules about being hit...
1. Was it malicious? You can tell when they are being malicious/evil/over the top. It's their reaction after the shot. Then, what?
2. Was it accidental? Once again, it's the reaction of the player plus was it a frame? a fluke?
3. Did you just get in the way? some players just play tennis. It's just tennis. Like it's just business, nothing personal. course, if we're playing mixed, and you drill an overhead through my women partner at point blank range--that's wrong.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Kevin Kauffman on
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Johnny Mac also with Connors went through juniors and one wouldn't say they grew accustom to dealing with petty antics or games, such things seemed to frustrate them more.
Prob cause such things are a waste of time.
Although Evert and Borg, Fed went through juniors and overall they are calm and controlled through most stuff.
Although I firmly believe juniors as Williams showed, Seles showed, really isn't too necessary, alot of times it is more about the parents ego.
Seles stopped all juniors from 11 to 14ish and then turne pro, Williams were similar.
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Although thinking about it further its been alot of years since I did juniors, 30's here, I recall now friends who played complaining about junior antics. I had a tendency at that time to tune stuff out other than ball and score.
Also I did hear Courier talk about issues he faced as a junior.
Not to defend jrs do things but alot of the jrs get tons of pressure from parents to win. From high school players to top national ranked jrs parents can be very involved and apply alot of pressure.
I use to be a hitting partner for alot of jr's from high school to national, a few were as high as top 20 in nation in junior 18s and overall I think its usually a good crop of kids.
Tough to be a teenage then have parent pressure to win in order to get scholarships, etc.
Gary Sakuma said:10 to 1 ratio... I LOVE THAT... that's poor form when you use your partner as an achilles heel...but it happens.
i once played in an 8.0 league--my partner was a 3.0... and these people didn't know us--our team was all 5.0's and 3.0's so they didn't know the 5.0's nor the 3.0's...they were 4.0's... so they were going after us--5.0's and 3.0's alike... basically, when we warm up 5.0's don't do much in the warm ups, we're warmed up before we play so we all cruise...then, the match starts and we play. i had a guy overhead at me, i volleyed it, and then, closed in to slam the winner through him... and i was looking around... that was pretty much what was happening... the 4.0's were playing through the 5.0's, and the 5.0's started playing through them in return... needless to say, it was interesting because then, the focus was on retaliation for the 4.0's as they went after the 5.0's and forgot about the 3.0's... easiest matches we had all season...
Mark / Mr. Mayor said:Great point. There is a big difference between practice and league play. It really does matter how important the match is. And your point about a weaker player on the court is well taken too. In mixed, I often have a weaker partner and the rules are different here again.
Randy Lynn Rutledge said:Over the years, in my group teaching sessions, I often team up with the weakest player of a foursome so that he/she can receive some double strategy tennis tips during an actual doubles match. There is always the player who wants to take advantage of the situation and try to look good by coming at me when my partner, whose level of play is far below everyone else on the tennis court, hits a floater. No problem. These guys are my students, so I just make sure that they understand that if they are successful in hitting me, and I think that it was done on purpose, I fully intend to pay back with as close as I can come to a 10-1 ratio. This usually helps them to get on the same page and focus on why we are having the practice doubles session.
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Permalink Reply by Gary Sakuma on
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I'm wondering about where it all begins. When I played Juniors, there were no parents around for me. I started late so I was in the 14's. The upper level kids were cool, but when I played novice level tournaments--the cheating, the hit the ball over the fence, the stalling, it was ridiculous. but i just thought it was part of the game so eh. plus i traveled and played with 5 other dudes so we supported each other.
When I transitioned to adult league in college/end of high school, it was a C level league. the guys were pretty straight forward. Some were a bit excessive about the rules--tardy rules, etc--trying to call foot faults. But we were just better than them so it wasn't a big deal. Cheating was an issue and intimidation tactics--but we were like 18 year old kids in a 35 year old league so i could see that. It's annoying to be a big 30 year old guy with big muscles losing to a shrimp of an Asian kid--about 5 feet 5 and 140 lbs wet.
So reflecting, it was the lower level juniors tournaments that had small referee alotments and no parentals around that brought out poor behavior.
BUT THE FUNNIEST EVER--playing 30's and over Junior Vets, on center court, against the number 1 guy in the 30's--a good baseliner--i couldn't match up from the ground so i resorted to bringing him to net---which instantly turned the match around. This 30 year old had a major meltdown on center court during this massive junior veteran tournament. Slamming balls, hitting the ball to the corners, stalling, shouting, and basically acting like he was 12. And I just rode it like I was playing juniors--laughing the whole time--which I think made him more mental. But to me, it was funny because I had been through all the crap before BUT to see it when you're 30...
here's some junior clips of kids in Thailand
I was very impressed with the level of the 10's and 12's
The hardest shot...or if you ever play some hotshot little kid do this
Boys 16
the level is very high along with the tactics, but the boys aren't very tall or big.
Kevin Kauffman said:Johnny Mac also with Connors went through juniors and one wouldn't say they grew accustom to dealing with petty antics or games, such things seemed to frustrate them more.
Prob cause such things are a waste of time.
Although Evert and Borg, Fed went through juniors and overall they are calm and controlled through most stuff.
Although I firmly believe juniors as Williams showed, Seles showed, really isn't too necessary, alot of times it is more about the parents ego.
Seles stopped all juniors from 11 to 14ish and then turne pro, Williams were similar.
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Permalink Reply by Jason Lampione on
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Dear Gary Sakuma,
I understand your perceptions about the three examples you have used to illustrate the approaches a player can take in a rallying scenario where player A is either intently or not hitting player B in a cross-exchange. You pretty much have answered your own question, because based on the player or team that is involved on the other side of the net any one of the three scenarios can take place. Understandably, everyone has a winners mentality to some degree and others just wanna play for the enjoyment, however, if you feel that someone has crossed aa line ethically, then please, by all means make your point politely and directly in a very nice and non-threatening manner. If your son or daughter get's involved with competition locally, understanding the nature of the game will better educate you on the different angles of approach if your son or daughter loses interest or becomes frustrated in the process. The simple thing to do is always stay positive and always take the good from the bad. I hope this was helpful.
Sincerely,
Jason Lampione.
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Permalink Reply by Wolfgang on
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It's the same as going dancing in a busy nightclub. You will eventually get stepped on, kicked, elbowed, etc.
Happens. If I'mn actually injured, I tend to the injury, if not, I just ignore it. If it happens a second time, I start to question my opponents' motives.
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Permalink Reply by Mark / The Mayor on
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I like the dance club analogy. The higher the level of tennis, the less of an issue it is. You get used to the idea of getting hit.
Wolfgang said:It's the same as going dancing in a busy nightclub. You will eventually get stepped on, kicked, elbowed, etc.
Happens. If I'mn actually injured, I tend to the injury, if not, I just ignore it. If it happens a second time, I start to question my opponents' motives.
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